Conversation with Dr. Anabel Rodriguez

Dr. Anabel Rodriguez is an Assistant Professor in Environmental and Occupational Health at Texas A&M. Her focus is “improving occupational health, safety, and well-being among Spanish and Indigenous-speaking agricultural working populations in rural regions.” She was the lead author on the 2023 paper “On-Farm Health Screening Needs of Immigrant Dairy Workers in the Texas Panhandle and South Plains.” Additionally, she has a decade of experience providing OSHA safety training at dairy facilities in the High Plains region.

My final project will envision forms and content of worker organizing by Kiche-speaking dairy workers in West Texas. This requires understanding the issues workers face, which could inspire demands, as well as the social structure of their community, which could enable different approaches to organizing. Dr Rodriguez offered insights for both parts of this equation.

On the one hand, she discussed the three major sources of injuries in dairy operations: slips, trips, and falls; animal handling; and anaerobic lagoons. She also discussed the hierarchy of controls, which is a framework for removing and mitigating workplace hazards. When I asked about incentives for dairy operators to pursue worker safety outside of greater profits, she did not know of any besides avoiding attention from OSHA. She had never encountered a unionized workforce in her field of work.

On the other hand, Dr. Rodriguez had useful insights into the social organization of Mayan dairy workers. According to her, there are small (often kinship-based) work groups of Kiche speakers in which one member, a sort of organic leader, speaks Spanish or English and brokers communication with managers. According to Dr. Rodriguez, the share of Guatemalan workers has increased significantly during her decade of experience. She said that now, some dairies approach 50% of their employees being Maya speakers. Instead of just work groups, some plants now have entire Kiche-speaking departments.

The following conversation was conducted via Microsoft Teams on October 29th, 2025.

Andrew Berka   0:03
OK, great. So I was curious, I read through your like.
Like.
Bio and or I guess OK, tiny bit of context again. We're writing, we're supposed to do something focused on this Guatemalan community here in here for Fiona Bovina, Muleshoe, this kind of area for this like semester long project.
I happen to be interested in workers and and worker organizing and stuff. There's not really any of that here. But what I decided to do is to focus on like understanding working conditions and stuff like that and what.
Improvements in that sense could look like for these workers in these communities, and so I've looked through.
Based on your little like bio on your faculty page, I saw that you have a lot of experience with like a lot of rural areas and like immigrant workers, especially along the border, different industries. Obviously you authored this paper that we were.
Talking about a moment ago, but I'm curious, generally when we're talking about like the dairy industry or like specifically this sort of context of Guatemalan immigrants, how do you?
How much would you say you know about those things? I guess. How do you feel in this topic? Um.

Dr. Anabel Rodriguez   1:41
Yeah, I mean you, you mentioned earlier working conditions. So we in particular the work that I do does not collect data on working conditions. We've collected data on access to care.
TB bird flu education that we've given on site, right? Knowledge, awareness of of these infectious diseases and barriers to health.

Andrew   2:02
Thank you.

Dr. Rodriguez   2:15
You know, facilitators to to help. So that I don't have data. I mean, I have anecdotal observations from the past 12 years that I've worked in the industry. The first time I can probably tell you the first time I identified.
That there was workers that were speaking another language was in 2014. We were out giving a health and safety training on a farm in Stratford and you know, we had the training in English and Spanish.

Andrew   2:47
Mhm.

Dr. Rodriguez   2:51
And you know, here comes some workers. So I'm, you know, I'm, you know, speaking in Spanish to them and just the spaces, like just like if I would start speaking, you know, a different language to someone that understand, like just like I have no idea what you're saying, lady. And in walks one of the.

Andrew   3:04
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   3:11
Managers who was trilingual, he knew English, English and Kiche and told me, hey, do you have this training in Kiche because they're not going to understand anything. And that's the first time and I I relate this back to, you know, my then.

Andrew   3:13
Hello.

Dr. Rodriguez   3:26
Research mentor Dave Dufrate, who's also on this paper, who had been doing this work for the past 20 years. And he was like, wait, what? So this was kind of like around the first time that we started to see that individuals from the departamento of Quiche in Guatemala were moving to the Panhandle. So it.
It was around that time of 2013, 2014, 2015 is when you started to see an increase from anywhere from, you know, we had individuals on farms like maybe 4% of the workforce and it grew to 20% of the workforce and now there's farms that you know.

Andrew   4:02
Hello.

Dr. Rodriguez   4:06
Almost 50% of their workforce is Guatemalan, Kiche speaking in particular.

Andrew   4:12
Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, there's definitely been a. We've talked a little about this. There's like the migration patterns have have changed. And yeah, when we've been in some of these, we were on like a a field trip, I guess in Hereford, which is the.
Biggest of the kind of three that we're focusing on. And we talked to this owner of like a Guatemalan restaurant there and yeah, his estimate was now like the town's like 100% Latino, but like 3025% of it is probably Guatemalan now, so.
Yeah, that's very interesting. OK. So what I understood from the first bit you were saying was that like maybe what you've focused on isn't as much working conditions as more stuff that you could describe more as like.
Health indicators or stuff like that? How?
When have you seen anything in terms of like?
You just mentioned the situation of not being able to to give a training to to folks because of not speaking that indigenous language. Has that come up in your research at all in terms of like the?
Barriers to these things specifically for folks that don't speak English or Spanish in this context.

Dr. Rodriguez   5:36
Yeah. So, I mean, we learned quickly. So what we did is that we started to contract Kiche translators. And one of the things about Kiche is that it just became, you probably know from the research that you've done, is that it just became an alphabetized language in, you know, probably the past 30 years.
And so this had been a language that was passed down just orally from generation to generation. And so now there's a lot of, you know, efforts to preserve the language and to teach people about it. So it's very hard to.

Andrew   6:07
Mhm.

Dr. Rodriguez   6:13
Translated and have them read it. So what we really focused on was the audio piece of it and having people read Kiche as a as a a voiceover to our training so that we wouldn't encounter those issues of not being able to train workers.
Appropriately, whether it be for health and safety trainings on the job, whether it be for tuberculosis, bird flu, influenza in general. Now we are equipped with those things. As far as other languages in the Panhandle, I haven't encountered them. We have encountered different.
Dialects of Kiche, you know, and that's like, Oh my God, well, we don't have that dialect. So we've managed to be able to train in Spanish because they've either a that was their their second language or they've learned enough Spanish working on farms with other Hispanic workers.

Andrew   6:53
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   7:11
In particular Mexican workers where they've learned Spanish words and so they're they're we're able to communicate with them in in Spanish. So that's what we've what we've seen so far.

Andrew   7:21
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's very interesting. And I'm curious if you.
It was like trilingual and I guess it's interesting to me like obviously these these dairies and other like you know they they run day-to-day in spite of these.
Language issues. So I'm curious how you've seen that being managed. Uh, like does it seem like there's like perhaps work groups that will like, you know, all speak the same language or come to managers speaking those languages or like how does that?
Yeah. I mean, the same issue that you're encountering, anyone that's running an operation like this probably also encounters at some point. So I'm curious if you've observed anything in terms of that.

Dr. Rodriguez   8:14
Yeah, that's that's a great question. And again, these are anecdotal observations from, you know, the past decade. But you know, you have usually the structure, right, where for the most part your producer is a white male.

Andrew   8:19
Of course, yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   8:29
They're born in the US or parents, especially in the Panhandle. A lot of individuals came over from Southern California where, you know, had Dutch ancestry into the Panhandle because of water issues that happened.
And then the management that came in, like kind of in the 80s, nineties, were Mexican workers who then learned how to bridge the gap between the producer and the worker by learning how to speak English.

Andrew   8:53
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   9:01
And so their workforce for a while used to be predominantly Mexican Spanish speaking worker. So it was a very easy kind of arrow up and down. Then enter this third, you know, workforce or this third culture in there, which is your Quicho, Guatemalan speaking.
And what I what we tended to see before was just like maybe a couple of people who are related working with one another. And there's always kind of like this, I call it the alpha or the leader that is able to learn just enough Spanish to communicate with a middle manager who then communicates back to the owner. So there's this.
Kind of now this liaison between management and ownership. Then now you start to see bigger groups where managers and I've spoken to a couple of managers about this now say.

Andrew   9:40
Yeah.
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   10:06
Or that that kind of person who's a little bit more brave to take risks in the community that guides people, maybe was the first person to arrive in Yilshu or in, you know, Bovina or Fiona and is able to relay that information back.
But I have not seen.
Guatemalan managers that are the liaisons between the workers and the it's still predominantly a Mexican worker who is who is that piece of connection to the owner.

Andrew   10:37
Yeah.
That's curious. Yeah. I'm always very interested in how folks like organize themselves in these situations and what you've described is a very like by necessity. That's it's very interesting cause I'm always used to situations where you have like.
My parents were immigrants, but from from Poland, right? So I've seen, I've been able to compare notes on like different bilingual situations and I'm used to the idea of like language brokering by children for parents, you know? But here you have an interesting thing where there's like more language brokering by like.

Dr. Rodriguez   11:14
Oh, yeah.

Andrew   11:19
Yeah, like you said, whoever is the most experienced, whoever is some sort of organic leader, that's very, very interesting.

Dr. Rodriguez   11:28
I also want to add, Andrew, that I I almost feel like there's a pipeline from communities like you see because we also collect in some of our surveys the municipality that they're coming from, not only the country, the state, but then we go down to like tell us about your village.

Andrew   11:42
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   11:46
Or the the municipality or the county or whatever, wherever you came from, just a little bit specific so that we can look at those migration patterns. We also ask if they're related to someone on the farm and we see that, yes, I mean they're cousins of the cousins of the uncle of, you know, they one will come and this happened with my family.
As well who are immigrants from Mexico and we would we would migrate to California to work in the field is that we knew someone in California, we knew someone that we trusted. And so then we came and then we're like, hey, there's actually the job's really good and they treat us well. And then someone else came and it was this trickle effect and.

Andrew   12:06
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   12:24
This pipeline that I call it of of individuals from a similar region with familial ties, or at least very strong, trustworthy ties.

Andrew   12:35
That also, yeah, that's very interesting. In Chicago, there's neighborhoods from people from different parts of Poland. So, and I've heard of connections of like Puebla and parts of Philadelphia. Like, yeah, this is the thing that's been studying. It's super cool. That's. I'm glad that you added that.

Dr. Rodriguez   12:43
Yeah.

Andrew   12:54
Yeah, I'm curious. I understand if this isn't part of the surveys or research you've done, or if it isn't a thing that you can ask about, but.
Are these Guatemalan, you know, indigenous workers often undocumented or are they like on a refugee status or what is that situation? Again, I understand that you're not asking about that, but.

Dr. Rodriguez   13:25
Yeah, we, yeah. None of our surveys have ever asked about documentation status. Yeah. Yeah. Because if we wouldn't have, you know, it'd be, it'd be really hard to get participation and and.

Andrew   13:25
Yeah.
OK, that's probably good.

Dr. Rodriguez   13:40
But I will say the, I don't know if you've looked at the National Agricultural Worker Survey, it's called NAS that does ask for documentation status of agricultural workers and you know data from that says that predominantly.

Andrew   13:51
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rodriguez   13:58
Undocumented and not on refugee status.

Andrew   14:02
Yeah, that's interesting. Um.
Yeah, cause I a lot of writing about, yeah, agricultural workers, immigrant workers focuses on this thing of being undocumented. So yeah, I'm also curious, we've kind of moved into like stuff that you've.
Experienced anecdotally, I wish I had the chance to look at this more, but in your research around like those health indicators and stuff for these dairy workers around here.
I'm not a person that's grown up in an area with with dairy farming. I'm not very familiar with it. I I'm curious I guess what sort of major health or safety risks you look at or what stands out to you. And obviously I'm interested in like.
Issues that workers experience, and I think this fits within that, so yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   15:06
Yeah, no, it definitely does. And and there's, you know, again, if you're looking for, I'm just trying to give you sources because I know you're going to need them for your paper. The the Bureau of Labor Statistics or BLS captures a lot of this information and it'll match with what I'm saying. Mostly what you see for.

Andrew   15:13
I appreciate that, yeah.
Mhm.

Dr. Rodriguez   15:26
Injury types on a dairy farm is slip, trips or falls. That happens, I mean in inherently, right? Dairy farms have have hazards that are linked to them, right? It's an integrated system. There's so many parts to it. There's so much equip, heavy machinery and equipment that goes with it and so.
Slip, trips and falls is number one. Number two would be at animal handling. So being trampled by an animal and and that goes hand in hand with the why we've done health and safety training in the past and also a training that we did was on animal handling or animal stewardship.

Andrew   15:51
Yes, I've seen it in, yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   16:05
Because some workers had great experience in ag. We've asked about experiences in ag with animal handling outside of the US and they're like, I grew up on a, you know, on a ranch that had two cats and that was our milk supply and we made cheeses and et cetera. Beautiful.

Andrew   16:18
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   16:22
But you haven't worked in a farm where there's 3000 animals all at once, and that is a very different feeling. And so there was there was a need to deliver training to workers.

Andrew   16:28
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   16:38
To help them understand kind of the pivot points of cattle, right, where the blind spots are, how to move cattle in a way that's humane and appropriate, but also gets the work done, right? Because we also know that there has to be production on on this piece and it's something that was.
That was, oh, what is the word I'm looking for that was, you know, welcomed and accepted by the industry because they know it's important as well as workers. I mean, I remember there was one training that we gave. This is somewhere in New Mexico, I think it was in Las Cruces, like back in 2015 or.
15 or 2016 and there was a piece about manure lagoon safety, which is another source of fatality. I don't know if you've done a little bit of digging, but it happens that manure lagoons are very dangerous places.

Andrew   17:14
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rodriguez   17:29
And I had a worker that said, hey, thank you for the training. This was awesome. I didn't know that I couldn't go into a manure lagoon. I just thought it was like poop and mud, you know, and that if something fell in there, I could go and grab it or I could help someone get out of it, which is.
What happens in a lot of these accidents is that someone falls or into the lagoon and then someone goes in after trying to save them and it's just gonna be fatality after fatality because the gases, you'll succumb to the gases very quickly, which is hydrogen sulfide.
In there. And we've seen, you know, most recently there was, there was, I think it was 6 people who died in on a dairy farm in Colorado. It's all over the news. And actually my colleague Dave Dufrey gave some expertise commentary on it. And it was that right that one went in like, Oh my God, I need to go save and the other one and the other one and the other one.

Andrew   18:01
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   18:19
And it just was a, you know, a domino effect. So those things are, I would say, the top three types of injuries and fatalities on a farm.

Andrew   18:28
OK.
Are there any if I was like to compare it to?
I guess are there any like statistics you could drag me to or I mean I could probably also work myself, but you know where I could kind of holistically look at like how dangerous work here is in comparison with other industries or other environments, some sort of like numerical thing.

Dr. Rodriguez   18:56
Absolutely. And the BLS does it for you as well, where you can look at other industries outside of the AG industry, but then you can also look at industries within the AG industry. Obviously fishing is the most dangerous out of the the AG.

Andrew   18:58
OK, alright.
Good.

Dr. Rodriguez   19:13
Forestry and fishing, which is kind of lumped together and then you can separate AG, forestry, fishing all through, yeah.

Andrew   19:22
Yeah, that's.
Yeah, this is a world I'm not super familiar with, so I'm like, huh, I never thought about that with a lot of this. But yeah, besides training, when you're talking about these slips, trips and falls, animal handling injuries and the.

Dr. Rodriguez   19:30
Mhm.

Andrew   19:45
The lagoons and to I'm guessing there is some level of.
Safety measures or like systemic management choices or stuff like that that folks running or managing a farm like this can make that.
Influences the the the likelihood of these issues or it can help avoid them is again, I'm I'm not sure if that's something you've directly looked at and I've seen a lot of papers where they're talking about what to do about animal handling and and stuff like that.
But um, is there anything you found in that respect, or perhaps anything I should be looking for if I'm interested in that?

Dr. Rodriguez   20:34
Yeah, I think you could look into the hierarchies of control. So let me, I'm gonna send this to you by the CDC.

Andrew   20:42
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   20:43
Oh, this person is from outside. Accept. OK, there we go.
So I just sent you these and the hierarchies and controls really identifies a preferred order of action that you can do. And so the first one is elimination. So completely eliminating the problem obviously, right? Like, OK, this machine is like injuring everyone. We're just gonna.
Take it away. Another thing is substituting like, OK, we're going to take this machine away, but we're going to substitute it with something else. There's engineering controls, like for instance, let me give you an example of another source of injury and fatality on the farm. That's the power take off.

Andrew   21:10
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   21:25
In a tractor, I don't know if you've seen it. It spins really fast. It's it gives power right to whatever it's pulling behind. There's tons of tractors on farm. That's how they feed, that's how they harvest, etcetera. Well, that power take off, right? Sometimes you just.

Andrew   21:30
OK.
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   21:43
Want to jump over it? Because why go around the whole tractor right where you can just go to the other side and unclip and it's it's very easy to snap into that mindset of like, I'll just go over. If you have any loose clothing, it will just.

Andrew   21:49
Yeah.
More, yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   21:59
And wrap you around. So you can just imagine it's a terrible way to get injured and mostly a lot of these injuries are fatal. One of the beautiful things that happened with engineering controls in the past years is there is a power take off shield.
That can be put on top and just about every producer has gotten one of those Shields because mad will it save you on everything. And now that shield is there and now it's protected, right? And and and you don't have to worry about.

Andrew   22:17
That's yeah, OK.
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   22:31
Oh my gosh, if it's someone is going to just have a impulse of I can just jump over, nothing will happen to me and get caught in it. And so that's one the administrative controls like you said in at least and I know we're talking about about dairy and sometimes it does happen in dairy, but.
I can think of a really particular example for migrant farm workers. Farm workers in the valley that I work with in South Texas is the administrative controls that they've put in place to prevent heat, St. heat, stress, illness or events is to start working at 3:00 in the morning and end by like.

Andrew   22:59
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   23:10
Like 10:00 AM so that they're not under the sun. So they bring big lights and people come in and it's cooler during those times the sun is not out. And so they're able to to harvest without, you know, being under the sun all all day long.

Andrew   23:25
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   23:27
And then PPE, which is the last resort. We talk a lot about it. You know, we put your mask on, put this. Yes, it works, but that is the last, right? You want to eliminate COVID, not have to wear our mask kind of example.

Andrew   23:40
I'm aware we're we're going a little overtime, so if you need to go in a moment, let me know. If you're good for a few more minutes, I have a couple more questions.

Dr. Rodriguez   23:44
Yeah.
Yeah, I can. I can give you a couple more minutes.

Andrew   23:54
All right. Thank you. Yeah, that's very interesting. And I hadn't. I'm always.
I don't know. My girlfriend studies like public policy and she listens to this engineering disaster podcast and this sounds a little familiar, even though I've not seen it in a systematized kind of way like this. You mentioned that sort of case of these.
Power startup or the the spinning things powering was behind the tractor and how they ended up covering that up. I guess I'm curious what when I hear something like that, I'm like, wow, why didn't they do that immediately? You know, I understand we're getting a little.

Dr. Rodriguez   24:26
Mhm.

Andrew   24:41
Outside of your field maybe here, but I'm curious between like government stuff or like.
I guess what sort of uh?
Forces or incentives are there for better safety practices or better training or or like you said, the engineering elimination, the PPE, that whole hierarchy like why should?
You can say like, oh, it's more profitable, but like folks will do a lot of things regardless of that. So I'm curious what sort of incentives around for like, yeah, someone running a dairy farm to want you to come and do some training or that sort of thing or what moves trends in terms of?
Imlementation of this stuff.

Dr. Rodriguez   25:31
Yeah, I think before I I give you a full answer to that, I need to take you back to AG in general that is grandfathered into the and I'm forgetting the accent, but it's from 1930. It's grandfathered into.

Andrew   25:38
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   25:47
Its own category of an occupation. So by things like overtime are not paid, right? Because it's so weather dependent, yes.

Andrew   25:55
Yeah, it's not in the FLSA. It's it's it's not in the NLRA. It's horrible. You can't like.

Dr. Rodriguez   26:00
It is. It's its own little hub and with that also comes right, these flexibilities because again, ag is ag is very, very, very dependent on the weather, dependent on outside forces.

Andrew   26:04
Yeah.
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   26:16
Right. That that can't be controlled. And so with that comes a lot of flexibility, but they are anyone with more than 10 employees is under the jurisdiction of OSHA, right? If a there are also reportable injuries and reportable, obviously reportable all fatalities, but there's different.

Andrew   26:20
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   26:35
Injuries that are also reportable within the 1st 24 hours. And again you can again citations here. I'm just trying to make sure that you that you know we have it for your paper. Go on the OSHA website and look at what is a reportable and what is not.

Andrew   26:43
Uh huh.
OK.
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   26:51
And so producers are bound to that if they have 10 or more employees. And so they have to, maybe there's no incentive to it, but they are, you know, this is, it's a federal mandate that they have to report.
And so with that is that incentive to keep OSHA off their property by keeping their workers safe and healthy. Yeah, so that piece is. And so let me go back to answering your question with that being said.

Andrew   27:14
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   27:25
Is that when we would come in, because these were trainings through an OSHA grant, we would train their workers, have them all signed in. We would also give them like a a piece of paper that said, hey, you completed this training with these workers that have signed in.

Andrew   27:31
OK.
Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   27:42
And the content was of power takeoff, manure lagoons. And so by them having this, if something occurred on their farm and they were audited, this was part of their audit of like, hey, I did give out training, I did do this. And so in that sense.
Maybe you can call that an incentive, but there's no financial incentive other than being more profitable by keeping your your workers safe, which is what we try to, um, advocate for.

Andrew   28:16
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting though. I look at the reportable things and all that. Obviously, when I hear of anything like that, I'm immediately like, you know, what are the penalties? What's the enforcement? But.
Yeah, in your experience in all of these industries, seeing as you're in Texas, seeing as you're often with very vulnerable workforces, have you like, ever run into a unionized workforce?

Dr. Rodriguez   28:50
Not in Texas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Texas is not a Union State per se. I don't know the rules or the regulations attached to that. I don't know much about unions, even though I'm in occupational health. But I just, I know that in Texas they don't have a strong presence.

Andrew   28:52
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
No, in Texas, yeah.
Yeah, they're on the upswing now, but um, but Yep, texts a long history with this stuff. Um, yeah.
Uh, let's see. OK, we're just getting to 30 minutes now and I said this would be 30 minutes and I'm supposed to have 30 minutes, so I think that's good. I'll look at the things that you suggested and I really appreciate, um, everything that you shared.
I wish I'd been able to read a little, be a little more informed before this, but yeah, and there's a small chance that I'll have some sort of if I arrive at something that I can't find from just like research, I might send you an e-mail with a.
A question or something, but but I feel like I have a lot of things to you've given me. I really appreciate all the little sources and stuff you sprinkled in because I'm thinking kind of a lot of directions to go and a lot of perhaps too much even for this paper, but but lots of interesting things.

Dr. Rodriguez   29:59
Yeah.

Andrew   30:17
So yeah, I thank you so much for agreeing to this and I look forward to I guess seeing you in in class. I'm not sure when that is, but.

Dr. Rodriguez   30:27
Yeah, it won't be in person. It'll be via Zoom, so I'll try my best. But I will be presenting about the systemic barriers to health that a lot of workers encounter in very rural areas like, you know, the upper 26 counties in the Panhandle.

Andrew   30:29
I know none of our class are, yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   30:43
So hopefully that'll help as well. But that's also part of the that one paper that you found. There's information on those systemic barriers to health and how that really impacts them, not only health wise, but you know, in general living in a space that has limited resources for them.

Andrew   30:51
OK.
Yeah, that's interesting. And I'll look through your your paper again. The other person I was trying to contact with initially it was the person you mentioned Professor Dufrate.
So, yeah, but alright, thank you. I hope you have a great day. And yeah, I don't know, I'll let you know if there's there's anything else. Yeah.

Dr. Rodriguez   31:20
Yeah.
Yeah, no. And I'd love to read your piece. So let me know once it's, uh, once it's final, I'd like to see what you put together.

Andrew   31:35
OK.

Dr. Rodriguez   31:41
Yeah.